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why is he fighting hagel over vietnam? >> it's interesting because he's ostensibly fighting with him over iraq. but it immediately becomes about vietnam. it's as how they're talking about. he seems to be mad that hagel took issue with him about iraq and compared it to vietnam being the big blunder which of course mccain and hagel both served in. when mccain talks about iraq, he only wants to talk about it from the surge on, it's as if everything before that didn't happen and didn't count. and we can still debate whether the surge worked or not. the bigger issue is whether iraq was as bad as vietnam and he doesn't want to have that argument. >> here he is, joy, why don't you respond to mccain sinking his teeth into hagel's ankle. he wouldn't let go of the question of the surge. back again to the old war. >> will you correct or incorrect when you said that the surge would be the most dangerous foreign policy blunder in this country since vietnam? were you correct or incorrect? yes or no? >> my reference to the surge being th
why is he fighting hagel over vietnam? >> it's interesting because he's ostensibly fighting with him over iraq. but it immediately becomes about vietnam. it's as how they're talking about. he seems to be mad that hagel took issue with him about iraq and compared it to vietnam being the big blunder which of course mccain and hagel both served in. when mccain talks about iraq, he only wants to talk about it from the surge on, it's as if everything before that didn't happen and didn't count....
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the ticked-off hagel, is it just for show? the basic unfairness of vietnam itself that some went and some didn't? is it about lyndon johnson's inability to win the war or end it? what is it about john mccain that seems to excite those who know nothing about vietnam. well tonight we dig into the deep well of resentment burning in john mccain's patriotic heart. a resentment not against the north vietnamese who imprisoned and tortured him, not against george w. bush and his political henchmen who tried to stain mccain's reputation. but just like he did, in the same army of america's long nightmare in vietnam. i'm joined by david corn with "mother jones" and joy reed with the grio. i have to tell you i'm convinced we're watching a flashback. watch this, here's senator john mccain, he did a long, angry wind-up before he launched into his first so-called question. it was really an indictment for former senate colleague and former friend and fellow vietnam veteran, chuck hagel. it included put-downs, as well as reference does vietnam
the ticked-off hagel, is it just for show? the basic unfairness of vietnam itself that some went and some didn't? is it about lyndon johnson's inability to win the war or end it? what is it about john mccain that seems to excite those who know nothing about vietnam. well tonight we dig into the deep well of resentment burning in john mccain's patriotic heart. a resentment not against the north vietnamese who imprisoned and tortured him, not against george w. bush and his political henchmen who...
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Feb 2, 2013
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why is he fighting hagel over vietnam? >> well, it's interesting because he's ostensibly fighting with him over iraq, but it immediately becomes over vietnam. he seems to be mad that hagel took issue with him about iraq and compared it to vietnam being the big blunder, which, of course, mccain and hagel both served in. you know, when mccain talks about iraq, all he wants to talk about is from the surge on. it's as if everything before that didn't happen and didn't count, and we can still debate whether the surge worked or not, but the bigger issue is whether iraq was as bad as vietnam, and he doesn't want to have that argument. >> here is mccain sinking his teeth into hagel's ankle here, and he wouldn't let go on the question of the iraq surge. again, what david said. let's listen again, back again to the old war. >> were you correct or incorrect when you said that the surge would be the most dangerous foreign policy blunder in this country since vietnam? were you correct or incorrect? >> my -- >> yes or no. >> my referenc
why is he fighting hagel over vietnam? >> well, it's interesting because he's ostensibly fighting with him over iraq, but it immediately becomes over vietnam. he seems to be mad that hagel took issue with him about iraq and compared it to vietnam being the big blunder, which, of course, mccain and hagel both served in. you know, when mccain talks about iraq, all he wants to talk about is from the surge on. it's as if everything before that didn't happen and didn't count, and we can still...
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Feb 1, 2013
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we start with chuck hagel's rough day on capitol hill. lawmakers attacked the former senator and vietnam veteran in a contentious, nearly eight hour hearing over his nomination to become at the next u.s. defense secretary. the question was expected to be tough but he appeared uncomfortable, even unprepared. the most heated exchange of the day came from a former close friend, senator john mccain who grilled hagel on opposing the 2007 u.s. troop surge in iraq. >> wiere you correct or incorret when you said that the surge would be the most dangerous foreign policy blunder in this country since vietnam? were you correct or incorrect? yes or no? >> my reference to -- >> are you going to answer the question, senator hagel? the question is, were you right or wrong. that's a pretty straight forward question. >> well, i -- >> i would like the answer whether you're right or wrong and then you're free to elaborate. >> well, i'm not going to give you a yes or no answer. >> well, let the record show you refuse to answer that question. please go ahead.
we start with chuck hagel's rough day on capitol hill. lawmakers attacked the former senator and vietnam veteran in a contentious, nearly eight hour hearing over his nomination to become at the next u.s. defense secretary. the question was expected to be tough but he appeared uncomfortable, even unprepared. the most heated exchange of the day came from a former close friend, senator john mccain who grilled hagel on opposing the 2007 u.s. troop surge in iraq. >> wiere you correct or...
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the show that welcomes hagel for the leftist with proud arms. thanks for being up on this first of february. there is a lot going on including new ammunition for gun control ads shows overwhelming support for background checks. in chicago, mayor emanuel says enough is enough. we'll tell what you he is doing to try to stop the latest epidemic of gun violence in the windy city. a tragic wakeup call in the world of extreme sports. after a snowmobile rider died from injuries he sustained in a crash at the x games. that's ahead in sports. first, our top story at 5:30 a.m. eastern time in new york city. we start with chuck hagel's rough day on capitol hill. lawmakers attacked the former senator and vietnam veteran in a contentious, nearly eight hour hearing over his nomination to become at the next u.s. defense secretary. the question was expected to be tough but he appeared uncomfortable, even unprepared. the most heated exchange of the day came from a former close friend, senator john mccain who grilled hagel on opposing the 2007 u.s. troop surge in
the show that welcomes hagel for the leftist with proud arms. thanks for being up on this first of february. there is a lot going on including new ammunition for gun control ads shows overwhelming support for background checks. in chicago, mayor emanuel says enough is enough. we'll tell what you he is doing to try to stop the latest epidemic of gun violence in the windy city. a tragic wakeup call in the world of extreme sports. after a snowmobile rider died from injuries he sustained in a crash...
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the have it tree troll against chuck hagel. is it about lyndon johnson's inability to win that war or end it? what is it that burns so deeply in john mccain today? for some reason he wants to play it again and again in iraq and afterno afghanistan and again in iran. we look at the resentment burning in john mccain's heart. it's not against george w. bush and his political henchmen who tried to stay mccain's reputation in 2000 but a guy who fear and rallied against wounds just like he did. chuck hagel, a nightmare, by the way, whose flashbacks must haunt still the heart still of john sydney mccain. both are msnbc analysts. both of you, sir, and lady, are younger than me, but i must tell you i'm absolutely convinced we're watching a flashback. watch this. he did a long angry windup before he launched into his first so-called question which was really an indictment. it included putdowns as well as references to vietnam. let's listen. >> in january of 2007 in a rather bizarre exchange with secretary rice in the foreign relations co
the have it tree troll against chuck hagel. is it about lyndon johnson's inability to win that war or end it? what is it that burns so deeply in john mccain today? for some reason he wants to play it again and again in iraq and afterno afghanistan and again in iran. we look at the resentment burning in john mccain's heart. it's not against george w. bush and his political henchmen who tried to stay mccain's reputation in 2000 but a guy who fear and rallied against wounds just like he did. chuck...
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Feb 16, 2013
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hagel is an honorable man. he has served his country, and no one on this committee at any time should impugn his character or his integrity. >> we're going to show some of cruz's mccarthyite statements in the next segment. tuesday night, hours matter, mccain introduced a new wrinkle with senators graham and ayotte. he wrote a letter to the white house requesting more information about what the white house did during the benghazi attack. he told "foreign policy" magazine, quote, we need to know what the president's conversations were. i would vote no on cloture on thursday unless the information is provided. by tuesday -- actually by yesterday, which almost every day of the week he's changed his mind, the white house had responded to his satisfaction, but he still didn't vote for cloture. he still wouldn't vote to bring this matter of hagel's confirmation up to a vote, and here is his latest. let's watch. >> there are still questions outstanding. i believe that senators have the right to have those questions ans
hagel is an honorable man. he has served his country, and no one on this committee at any time should impugn his character or his integrity. >> we're going to show some of cruz's mccarthyite statements in the next segment. tuesday night, hours matter, mccain introduced a new wrinkle with senators graham and ayotte. he wrote a letter to the white house requesting more information about what the white house did during the benghazi attack. he told "foreign policy" magazine, quote,...
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chuck hagel was not going to give it to him. >> john mccain is not the issue, it is chuck hagel. his problem is not some tax, it is knowledge, elementary knowledge. he spoke about the government of iran as illegitimate the elected government. we know that the rolutn of 2009 was part byhe ft tha it was a rigged election, an illegitimate economy. the clip i wanted you to show was the one in which he said, he was asked about the policy of containment. it was not a bad during issue. he says, yes, i support the administration's policy of containment. he then gets a note that says, i have been told that i made a mistake. of course i am not in support of that. a policy of this administration on containment is that it does t have a policy of containment. at whi poi democratic senator levin had to rescue him and said, in fact, the administration has a policy of containment, and it is to oppose it. he was clueless. >> colby? >> he was in the position where he had to dodge a little bit. let's go back to the exchange with senator mccain on the surge. the issue was never the surge when you ta
chuck hagel was not going to give it to him. >> john mccain is not the issue, it is chuck hagel. his problem is not some tax, it is knowledge, elementary knowledge. he spoke about the government of iran as illegitimate the elected government. we know that the rolutn of 2009 was part byhe ft tha it was a rigged election, an illegitimate economy. the clip i wanted you to show was the one in which he said, he was asked about the policy of containment. it was not a bad during issue. he says,...
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hagel? >> you know i saw that information today also. that is more and more concerning. >> you can't take money from a terrorist organization and come from the united states senate and ask for a vote, can you? >> i am very troubled by it. >> i am very troubled by it, it being chuck hagel's imaginary connection to the organization, on a bright dot server, and apparently in rand paul's mind. that is who gets to vote to confirm the defense secretary, very troubled by this terrorist organization that he heard about in a chat room somewhere. don't feel so bad, rush, every country's got them, we just give them more power than most countries do. republicans filibustered chuck hagel's nomination yesterday, that has never happened before, no cabinet nominee has ever been blocked by a filibuster, we have been hit by meteors, but this was never done, now the senate is in recess, the confirmation will probably happen in a week and a half, unless of course we have to hear rand paul chair hearings on the birth certificate of the president, or somethin
hagel? >> you know i saw that information today also. that is more and more concerning. >> you can't take money from a terrorist organization and come from the united states senate and ask for a vote, can you? >> i am very troubled by it. >> i am very troubled by it, it being chuck hagel's imaginary connection to the organization, on a bright dot server, and apparently in rand paul's mind. that is who gets to vote to confirm the defense secretary, very troubled by this...
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do you stand by that -- those comments, senator hagel? >> well, senator, i stand by them because i made them. >> were you right? were you correct in your assessment? >> well, i would defer to the judgment of history to sort that out. >> the committee can deserves your judgment as to whether you were right or wrong about the surge. >> i'll explain why i made those comments. >> i want to know if you're right or wrong. that's a direct question. i expect a direct answer. >> well, if you would like me to explain why. >> i actually would like an answer, yes, or no. >> well, i'm not going give you a yes or no. i think it's far more complicated than that. and as i already said, i'll defer that judgment to history. as to the comment i made about the most dangerous foreign policy decision since vietnam was about not just the surge, but the overall war of choice going into iraq. >> ah. not just about the surge, it was about the overall war of choice going into iraq. right. so is john mccain trying to relitigate that? the overall war of choice going
do you stand by that -- those comments, senator hagel? >> well, senator, i stand by them because i made them. >> were you right? were you correct in your assessment? >> well, i would defer to the judgment of history to sort that out. >> the committee can deserves your judgment as to whether you were right or wrong about the surge. >> i'll explain why i made those comments. >> i want to know if you're right or wrong. that's a direct question. i expect a direct...
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hagel. and to do that, we must end debate and invoke cloture. mr. president, i yield the floor. the presiding officer: the senator from oklahoma. mr. inhofe: mr. president, first of all, i agree with a lot of what our distinguished chairman of the senate armed services committee has said. certainly senator hagel is -- he has a brilliant military career. mr. president, i look at my time in the army and his time in the army, and mine is very unimpressive. that isn't what the issue is here. and i do think it's interesting that in the debate we've had on the floor, all the time from the democrats has been talking about his military record, and nobody disagrees with that. that's a fact. but there are some things that have to come out because they are very, very significant. first of all, what we're going to vote on at noon today is the vote. there isn't any other vote. the vote after that is merely a simple majority, and that will be automatic. those who are expressing where they are on the hagel
hagel. and to do that, we must end debate and invoke cloture. mr. president, i yield the floor. the presiding officer: the senator from oklahoma. mr. inhofe: mr. president, first of all, i agree with a lot of what our distinguished chairman of the senate armed services committee has said. certainly senator hagel is -- he has a brilliant military career. mr. president, i look at my time in the army and his time in the army, and mine is very unimpressive. that isn't what the issue is here. and i...
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this vote is the vote on chuck hagel. it's not on procedure or anything. on chuck hagel. i retain the balance of my time. >> senator from michigan. >> what time does the majority have? >> 17 minutes remain for the majority. and three minutes for the minority. >>. >> five minutes senate from illinois. >> senator from illinois. >> madam president, this is rare. twice in the history of the senate have we had a filibuster involving a nominee for a cabinet position. twice. especially disappointing about this as it was just a few weeks ago we came together on a bipartisan basis and said we're not going this anymore. we're going try to work together. we're going try to avoid the filibuster and here we have sadly an historic filibuster over an appointment of a former united states senator, chuck hagel, republican of nebraska, as secretary of defense. i know, there's controversy social associated with the nomination. i know, chuck hagel. i served with him. we served together in the united states senate. no question in my mind the president made a good choice. i'll also tell you ne
this vote is the vote on chuck hagel. it's not on procedure or anything. on chuck hagel. i retain the balance of my time. >> senator from michigan. >> what time does the majority have? >> 17 minutes remain for the majority. and three minutes for the minority. >>. >> five minutes senate from illinois. >> senator from illinois. >> madam president, this is rare. twice in the history of the senate have we had a filibuster involving a nominee for a cabinet...
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no vote for hagel until panetta answers questions about benghazi. [laughter] what happens when ten jews sit in a room and try to come up with puns really. starts that way every morning, actually. so two weeks ago lindsey rhett graham had his raisin -- whatever it's a play. >> did the president show any curiosity about how is this going? what kind of assets do you have helping these people? did he ever make that phonecall? >> look, there's no question in my mind the president of the united states was concerned about american lives. >> with all due respect i don't believe it's a credible statement. >> jon: oh, with all due respect, the president does not care for he is a cad and a scoundrel. [ laughter ] it's a plan as the alabaster tone in my creamy skin and as simple as my maid kicked in the head by a donkey. this president lies like all the other men who woo you with their lives and leave behind nothing but broken dreams and a torn cotton negligee you ordered special from a yankee catalog. [cheers and applause] [laughter] anyway, the point is he go
no vote for hagel until panetta answers questions about benghazi. [laughter] what happens when ten jews sit in a room and try to come up with puns really. starts that way every morning, actually. so two weeks ago lindsey rhett graham had his raisin -- whatever it's a play. >> did the president show any curiosity about how is this going? what kind of assets do you have helping these people? did he ever make that phonecall? >> look, there's no question in my mind the president of the...
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were you surprised by the low energy of chuck hagel today on the stand? many people felt he was coached by whoever coached barack obama on his first debate. >> well, you know it reminded me of the joke of the corpse at the wake, that is not to get in the way of drinking and remembering. this is a strange combination of meet the parents and a job interfere where you got to be sure to be unobjectionable, and you have to work with these same people who are berating you to make your tenture a success and you know these hearings are more about them getting a sound bite for their district back home with their interests or their nuclear weapons plan in it, and they're unfortunately not so much about educating anybody on serious issues that we face. so from that perspective senator hagel's demeanor was entirely understandable, and i can't even begin to imagine how incredibly it mustfrustrating it must have been for him. heather hurlburt and david schuster. be will he be confirmed? >> he'll be confirmed. >> john: welcome back to "viewpoint." and its time for the t
were you surprised by the low energy of chuck hagel today on the stand? many people felt he was coached by whoever coached barack obama on his first debate. >> well, you know it reminded me of the joke of the corpse at the wake, that is not to get in the way of drinking and remembering. this is a strange combination of meet the parents and a job interfere where you got to be sure to be unobjectionable, and you have to work with these same people who are berating you to make your tenture a...
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Feb 13, 2013
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so is chuck hagel. i find myself disagreeing with senator kerrey on occasion, but i think he is in the mainstream of thinking and will do a good job for the country. i don't vote against nominees very often. senator obama to me if we use this standard, i think we would all be in pretty good shape over here and vote a lot. the we're not. at the end of the day, it is just not the vote about the iranian revolutionary guard but a series of votes and statements that paid a unusually disturbing picture. there is the left lane in politics, the right man to man the middle-income and when it comes to some of the iranian israeli issues there is the chuck hagel lane. he is in the league of his own. there is nobody with this kind of a series of votes in the series of statements. it's is not one thing. i see dumb things every day. it is a series of things, a series of votes, and edge about him that makes many of us very unnerved about his selection to a time when the world is on fire. ferias a contagion will take th
so is chuck hagel. i find myself disagreeing with senator kerrey on occasion, but i think he is in the mainstream of thinking and will do a good job for the country. i don't vote against nominees very often. senator obama to me if we use this standard, i think we would all be in pretty good shape over here and vote a lot. the we're not. at the end of the day, it is just not the vote about the iranian revolutionary guard but a series of votes and statements that paid a unusually disturbing...
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one of them i think is senator chuck hagel. >> john mccain and chuck hagel were so close that in 2000, when john mccain realized that he was not going to get the presidential nomination, when john mccain decided he had to give up that bitterly fought nomination battle, the person his campaign put out to speak to the press the day he made his decision to withdraw was his dear friend, old chuck. >> two aides tell nbc news that the arizona senator will announce a suspension of his quest for the white house. back in arizona after his crushing defeat on super tuesday mccain called supporters to thank them. >> we're glad to be home. >> nebraska senator chuck hagel, who spoke to mccain three times yesterday, believes mccain will stay in the republican party. >> he understands the big picture here. >> as you can tell from looking at this footage, as you can tell specifically from the evolution of the eye bags and the hairdos over time, that whole thing between chuck hague sxl john mccain was a long while ago. chuck hagel as john mccain's campaign co-chair, as the top of his short list for def
one of them i think is senator chuck hagel. >> john mccain and chuck hagel were so close that in 2000, when john mccain realized that he was not going to get the presidential nomination, when john mccain decided he had to give up that bitterly fought nomination battle, the person his campaign put out to speak to the press the day he made his decision to withdraw was his dear friend, old chuck. >> two aides tell nbc news that the arizona senator will announce a suspension of his...
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a very brief picture of secretary hagel. who will spend much more time. >> on that pavement right there, walking across that pavement. >> can i ask a quick thing about the breast cancer story. how much of the could be if there are better ways to determine if people have breast cancer. all those years ago, only 250 women. relatively small women. it grows dramatically because the ways you can discover women have breast cancer is better. >> same with autism. is there more of it, or are we detecting it. >> 1976 wasn't the middle ages. >> but technology in that field has -- >> that's true. >> i was going to given the advice, know your breasts, but i will let that go. >> i want to hear the joke. >> u.s. a good one. >> but on tv, not going to do it. >> i think the food supply. so many hormones used in food and if that has an impact on people. >> i know people are investigating that. interesting. >>> a cia officer-turned-whistle blower is on his way to prison in pennsylvania. last morning given a 2 1/2 year sentence to being among t
a very brief picture of secretary hagel. who will spend much more time. >> on that pavement right there, walking across that pavement. >> can i ask a quick thing about the breast cancer story. how much of the could be if there are better ways to determine if people have breast cancer. all those years ago, only 250 women. relatively small women. it grows dramatically because the ways you can discover women have breast cancer is better. >> same with autism. is there more of it,...
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part of what hagel is arguing, not all wars are worth winning. we tend to discuss, as long as we won, that is fine, good enough. and his point is there is a cost, even to something that goes to that, as well. >> and he expresses it emotionally in the hearing, it is not just the fact that you can staunch the bleeding, it is the fact you need to treat the wound. and that is where hagel wanted to express he was coming from, there were some engagements that shouldn't be done. and we shouldn't think as view is, somebody should write us out of the main stream. >> you picked what hagel talked about, what he wants to do with the navy. it strikes me as important, as well. if you could play that. >> the navy is an indispensable part of our security apparatus. first it is the one unobjectable power we have in the world. obviously, our balances of the asia pacific, persian gulf, we talked all day about iran, specifically iran in the persian gulf. you know we have the fifth fleet, and bahrain, two little battle groups in that small area. the flexibility, the
part of what hagel is arguing, not all wars are worth winning. we tend to discuss, as long as we won, that is fine, good enough. and his point is there is a cost, even to something that goes to that, as well. >> and he expresses it emotionally in the hearing, it is not just the fact that you can staunch the bleeding, it is the fact you need to treat the wound. and that is where hagel wanted to express he was coming from, there were some engagements that shouldn't be done. and we shouldn't...
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, senator hagel? >> well, senator, i stand by them because i made them. >> were you right? were you correct in your assessment? >> well, i would defer to the judgment of history to sort that out. but i'll -- >> the committee deserves your judgment as to whether you were right or wrong about the surge. >> i'll explain why i made those comments and -- >> i want to know if you were right or wrong. that's a direct question. i expect a direct answer. >> the surge assisted in the objective. but if we review the record a little bit -- >> will you please answer the question? were you correct or incorrect when you said that the surge would be the most dangerous foreign policy blunder in this country since vietnam? were you correct or incorrect? yes or no? >> my reference to the surge being -- >> are you answering the question, senator hagel? the question is were you right or wrong? that's a pretty straightforward question. i would like the answer whether you were right or wrong, and then you are free to elabor
, senator hagel? >> well, senator, i stand by them because i made them. >> were you right? were you correct in your assessment? >> well, i would defer to the judgment of history to sort that out. but i'll -- >> the committee deserves your judgment as to whether you were right or wrong about the surge. >> i'll explain why i made those comments and -- >> i want to know if you were right or wrong. that's a direct question. i expect a direct answer. >> the...
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we've got hagel on lockdown, the republicans filibustering chuck hagel. >> i'm going to hit you and keep hitting you absolutely. you're fought going to get away without answering basic questions. >> like how much do you love israel, do you love it as much as i do. i'm in a republican primary in south carolina, that's why i keep hitting you. i know, i though. they're saying this is not techy a filibuster. really? >> we've got a conservative journalist in favor of of fracking on the show he tonight. >> these people are campaigning against fracking for natural gas. i'm a journalist and wanted to find out if they were telling the truth. what could possibly go wrong? excuse me, excuse me. >> do you think it's appropriate? >> we're watching him up against the the sierra club. come on. top of the morning to you. then bill ny the science guy talking about whether an asteroid is going to wipe us out. >> bill nye the science guy. >> the end of the earth? how's that for fun? don't worry we're not all going to die but, it is, what is that is this go time! ♪ theme ♪ cenk: welcome to "the young tu
we've got hagel on lockdown, the republicans filibustering chuck hagel. >> i'm going to hit you and keep hitting you absolutely. you're fought going to get away without answering basic questions. >> like how much do you love israel, do you love it as much as i do. i'm in a republican primary in south carolina, that's why i keep hitting you. i know, i though. they're saying this is not techy a filibuster. really? >> we've got a conservative journalist in favor of of fracking on...
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Feb 17, 2013
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chuck hagel's nomination is held up. the expectation is he'll ultimately be confirmed but bill cohen said something this week to politico that caught my attention that does underline the problems that hagel could have as defense secretary. he said it's going to put him in a difficult position once he gets there. those resentments will weigh around. i think it's tragic what is happening and i think it's shameful. if he is confirmed, is' weaker defense secretary and is that something that weighs on the president's mind? >> no, he is not going to be a weaker defense secretary. he will be a great defense secretary. he volunteered to go to vietnam. heavily decorated when he was there. the last four years as the president chairman of the president intelligence advisory board in the senate where he is a leading republican senator. he is always done the hard work and made it look easy and exactly what he did. john mccain will be coming up in a couple of minutes saying frankly republicans don't like him i-i had an opportunity to
chuck hagel's nomination is held up. the expectation is he'll ultimately be confirmed but bill cohen said something this week to politico that caught my attention that does underline the problems that hagel could have as defense secretary. he said it's going to put him in a difficult position once he gets there. those resentments will weigh around. i think it's tragic what is happening and i think it's shameful. if he is confirmed, is' weaker defense secretary and is that something that weighs...